The Emotional Terrain of Democracy: A Deep Dive into Empathy and Vulnerability

Ever pondered the intricate dance of empathy and democracy? Well, that's precisely what we set out to explore with our esteemed guests, Sofia Alvarez and Jim Herr, from the National Center for the Preservation of Democracy. Through this collaborative project, we created three reflection booths, inviting people to pause in a public square. Together, we navigated the terrain of emotions, giving individuals the liberty to tap into their own emotions and harness their inner wisdom while we talked about our collective journey.

We peeled back the layers of vulnerability, delving into its crucial role in a thriving democracy. The interplay of empathy, power, and vulnerability revealed how these elements can foster a healthy space for emotion sharing, resource pooling, and heartfelt expression. Sofia and Jim lent their insights, shedding light on how our Empathy and Democracy series can facilitate a more in-depth discourse on empathy's role in democracy. We also marveled at nature's role in reminding us of our shared humanity—an essential reality check.

In a world that seems swamped with uncertainty, we underscored the gentle power of kindness and trust. We explored the art of gentleness and how to coax individuals into creating safe spaces for themselves and others. Join us for one of our upcoming pop-up art installations at the Japanese American National Museum—an embodiment of our collective journey. Help us weave together the narratives of empathy, vulnerability, gentleness, and democracy—a tapestry that promises to be rich in insights and revelations.

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Chapters

• 0:11 Reflection on Art, Empathy, and Democracy
• 10:20 Exploring Vulnerability and Democracy
• 16:44 Gentleness and Democracy Connection
• 31:20 Kindness and Trust in Uncertain Times

Transcript

Omar Brownson: 0:11

Hello Belinda.

Belinda Liu: 0:13

Hi Omar, it is so wonderful to have some extra guests here today with along with Arlene, we have Sophia and Jim from the National Center for the Preservation of Democracy. We just had a fabulous event, our first one of the series this weekend, this past weekend in LA. How did it feel?

Omar Brownson: 0:37

It was amazing to have this art and talk and KCRW crowd rolling through, and so we're going to reflect a little bit on the experience of this collaboration and then also pull a card for our gratitude. Blooming community.

Belinda Liu: 0:58

So I would love to start with Jim and Arlene. How did it feel to, you know, just have this great experiment of practicing emergence and also holding space for real conversations to happen around empathy and democracy with, with the plants present?

Arlene Kim Suda: 1:19

Yeah, I mean, I have to say I'm so grateful to Sophia and Jim, for I think there was a point where I wasn't really sure if this was going to happen, and so it's really like incredible that you had the faith and the belief that we could do this, and so it was. Without you guys I can't imagine having had this wonderful experience. So yeah, and I have to say I was, I felt, pleasantly surprised. I mean, I myself am an artist and I was kind of exploring this, these ideas of you know, creating like a real. It was like almost like a sculpture for me, but a real object that people could use to explore emotions and their energy.

Arlene Kim Suda: 2:08

Eventually, you know, for me it's really a way to reclaim and get back to, like our personal power. But what was really surprising to me was tying it into democracy, and so I was really I feel like it deepened the conversation around democracy and I really loved, jim, what you were saying about how you really see art as a way of kind of accessing empathy right, that we can't access otherwise, and that was really interesting to me. So I don't know if there's more that you want to share about how you think this, this exhibit, might have, you know, touched on that a little. I'd be really curious to hear.

Jim Herr: 2:54

Well, I don't, you know, we didn't have a way to really solicit like formal feedback from people, and I don't know if it's something, I don't even know if that's something we necessarily want to explore. But, you know, kind of let people have that moment. But there was one person I feel like she may have talked to you, I can't remember, but she actually expressed that when she was in the forgiveness booth she actually started crying. So you know, there was something that we did, that you did through the art, that actually activated a somatic response. You know, and that's what, what empathy does and the arts do in no like nothing else can to create that response where your body just automatically feels something.

Omar Brownson: 3:47

When we hold gratitude circles, we always start with three intentions. One is that your inner teacher is your best guide. So therefore, number two, there's no need to fix, save or advise anyone else. And three, silence is a participant. And it was so powerful to have these three reflection booths, you know one on wholeness, hope and forgiveness, and for people to really just tap into their own inner wisdom. You know, I think we were in some ways intentional about not standing right next to the booths and really kind of allowing people to have their own experience.

Omar Brownson: 4:27

I remember I went back after we had the talk, had this sort of opening, and then we went to dinner and then I came back. It was, you know, I don't know, maybe nine o'clock at night and because of the music event, there was still people out there and just one man said just like, oh, the directions were so clear and just greet the plant, be present, be aware of whatever emotions come up and then dare to dream, and then being given the opportunity to write those whatever came up for them on this piece of paper that then was strong, on the forgiveness booth, and I don't even think most people knew that the paper itself was special and that it had seeds in it that are going to be later planted, but it was just like to really create that sacred. It almost felt like a confessional booth and I was like, oh, maybe there was some intentional design, you know, even in confessional booths, of like, hey, I just need a little bit of space to be quiet and kind of be able to go within, and and it's just how, like we even just transformed a couple of voting booths from the county voting registrar right, and people just need a little bit of permission to pause. You know, I feel like that's really kind of what came through. This practice is like gratitude blooming in some ways gives people permission to pause, and whether it's with a card, one of the songs now on the album, and now with these reflection booths, like what is what is happening in this pause?

Belinda Liu: 5:58

That totally resonates for me what you shared, omar, about the pause. I've been sitting with that a lot more since the gathering and for me I was kind of holding more of the space around the live experience and just kind of feeling the energy and the air. And us, you know, jim, arlene, omar and I kind of on, kind of on the stage, but trying to form the circle of energy to do this collective pause, and I think it's exciting to have our organizations play with coherence, you know what. What does it mean to hold a coherent space for people to experience for themselves, like what is the story for me right now? What is the story of us? And then what is the story of now, which is really about the collective and the culture that we want to create, and having, you know, a live practice with the curiosity note cards, you know, each of us kind of sitting with a question around each of those things and and then inviting the people that were participating to then do the same. And we did have some time to kind of debrief it with others and kind of check in afterwards. And I think that my reflection is it is really different to host an event and I think, jim, you said this where there is silence involved to give space for people to sit with.

Belinda Liu: 7:19

What is going on with me right now and there were a couple people that surprised themselves in picking up the mic when you walked around the space and sharing. And one woman was like I didn't. I'm not the person that raises their hand to share in a public way like this, but I felt moved to and express like kind of, some of the edginess around the card that I got. The card that they had gotten was on perspective and initially it didn't resonate and it looked like a plant that was a little bit less strong. And and then when she did the practice of the Agapanthus, of closing her eyes and taking those 3D breaths and seeing it again, it was like, oh my gosh, it's actually that, the like that, what you feel before you want to sing, and that's kind of an expression of your personal power.

Belinda Liu: 8:09

Back to Arlene you know that word and even as she talked it was like unfolding. The power of her voice was unfolding and so I think that's unexpected for people like, oh, I'm going to this thing. There's people that are holding space. You know I'm expecting to listen, but then you know to be asked to them, be present with your own emotions, and then you know the opportunity to express it. I think is really unique. I love to hear you know, jim and Sophia, like you all, hold a lot of spaces. You host a lot of people at your center. How did that feel for you? Was there comfort or discomfort around it? You know, just it's. It's kind of different.

Jim Herr: 8:55

I think and I won't speak for Sophia, because I think she has a very unique perspective as well but for me there's also the role of host. So and I don't know if it's just cultural or the way I was brought up and and, Omar, probably I hope, I hope I invited you to some of my famous parties, but maybe I didn't know I've always been sort of like I'm a host and so I take that role very seriously and I think part of it is I'm very introverted and being the host gives me something to do, gives me a reason to interact with people. But there's also that layer of responsibility of like, oh my god, is everybody having a good time? Is everybody getting this? Is everybody like, you know?

Jim Herr: 9:42

And with this particular event is, is the silence? Are the people okay with the silence? Are they like, are they thinking? Are they too far out there? Are they really getting buying into? So like there's all these other things kind of bubbling around in my head and bouncing around just related to the event itself and making sure that people are getting something out of it. So I feel that maybe in some ways it takes, takes me out of the being fully present, but I think it comes somewhat with the territory.

Omar Brownson: 10:18

Thank you, sophia.

Sofia Alvarez: 10:20

Well, you know, this is the first time that we had done an event like this and you know, as a host, I think, going off of what Jim says, I think there's always this little grain of uncertainty whether or not folks will be pleased or intrigued and engaged with what you're bringing to the table.

Sofia Alvarez: 10:38

And so I think with that I was allowing myself to step back and kind of enjoy and try to be as much in the moment as possible by allowing folks to have their moment in the space, so that I could really appreciate what had come to fruition that day.

Sofia Alvarez: 10:59

And I think what was was really special about the space. And, Omar, you said something that I really liked about such a public space allowing folks to exercise their vulnerability in such a public yet private manner. Such a public space in a private manner really, I think, challenges how people think about their emotions and how they arise, and I think that it paves way to a larger conversation about how folks can have more autonomy and more control over not necessarily over how they feel, but how they move through those feelings and how they react and choose to deal with those emotions as they go through their day, because sometimes feelings may arise throughout the day and sometimes we don't know why, other times we do, and I think the power and being able to call upon like reflection is that you're able to hold this inner conversation with yourself and ground yourself and still have, you know, the power and the tools to do that in a very public space.

Omar Brownson: 12:16

I love that you're bringing the word vulnerability into the conversation, because I think you know we can talk about empathy and democracy and these sort of like abstract like sometimes people want to talk about emotions and in a science like this is the neuroscience and it gives us a little comfort to talk about something that maybe feels uncomfortable and we're like democracy.

Omar Brownson: 12:37

You know we can be very technical about it, like get out the vote or you know how do we get people to participate more, and it's very maybe theoretical and really.

Omar Brownson: 12:50

You know, arlene, I think evoked it both empathy and democracy are really about how do we deal with power and I think you're really cutting to the chase of it, sophia which is like to really deal with power. We actually have to acknowledge our vulnerability right, because power is inherently oftentimes about like trying to acquire and hold on to. Well, if you are trying to just acquire and hold on to, then it's really hard to share right, hard to share emotions and feelings, and it's hard to share resources and both. What vulnerability that invites is like how do I share my feelings in a healthy way? How do we share this country, this planet, our resources, each other in a way? And you can't do that without being vulnerable. Right like and this is, I think you're cutting to the heart of the struggle right is like some people just want to acquire and what we were trying to invite is like no, how do we actually release? How do we open up?

Belinda Liu: 13:51

Yeah, I remember at one point at dinner, jim, you were like saying asking me like, well, you know how is, how are we going to do something with democracy with? You know, these conversations like and there was this element of curiosity and kind of excitement and also like questions you know, how are we going to do this and what is the connection, what is the through line here? And I really do believe, and especially for me, living in a small town in rural California that is, you know, has a variety of political, you know, diversity when we can see each other as people, which actually takes vulnerability right, like that's what forgiveness is, it's like seeing the humanness of someone and being able to give that forgiveness or ask for that forgiveness. And so my greatest hope for this, the series as it grows is that we can create that kind of real, authentic vulnerability that then invites people from all different spectrums to come and just have the human experience.

Belinda Liu: 14:54

Where, you know, we can remember that, and I think that's what's so powerful about nature is that we're, we are nature, we are part of nature, and so having the plants kind of hold, holding that space, it kind of reminds us of our nature. You know, oh, mom are you talk a lot about that like human by nature, right? And so I would be curious to ask the plants today, the cards, you know, is there is something that you hope for for the next event or this series, or is there something you have a question about that we can, you know, center our card practice around as we are creating coherence together, like creating together.

Omar Brownson: 15:39

Anyone have one question or intention for the next empathy and democracy event? This is going to be the second of four.

Jim Herr: 15:52

I think for me it is how do we move the conversation from sort of I don't want to say general, but I think I think it was definitely this first session was like this this level set of the conversation and how do how do the tools work in general, or how did the tools work for, for the participants, and then now, and leaning on on you guys, how do we use that, those tools in a very specific way, around conversations about empathy and democracy and how? You know, how do we get there, how to, what is it? What does empathy mean for them? Like, what are the themes that arise out of empathy and democracy?

Omar Brownson: 16:42

I love that. So we're blended. Going to pull up the guy to booming card deck and I don't know, since Jim sort of stated the inquiry, sophia, would you like to pick the card? There's seven rows, six columns and Belinda will scroll and you can just tell her to stop.

Sofia Alvarez: 17:02

Okay, let's see.

Omar Brownson: 17:15

So how do we get more specific? Card number 31, the gardenia representing the theme of gentleness. Being kind to yourself and others can be a way to show gratitude. What would it look like to live with more gentleness? So, just looking at the art first, and this inquiry around how to you know, move from just level setting of hey, here are some tools, to how we can maybe be more specific about this connection between empathy and democracy. Is there anything in the art that comes to you or the theme of gentleness?

Sofia Alvarez: 17:55

When I look at the drawing of the gardenia, I see that there is a lot of empty space within each petal and I think when I see that, I specifically think of listening and being open to taking in stories and hearing other people and hearing someone who may be different from you in, you know, small or minute way or a large way, and being able to hold that space for them as you intake that or take that in.

Omar Brownson: 18:28

Beautiful.

Jim Herr: 18:30

You see, if you look at the center, the very center of Arlene's artwork, there's sort of this swirl to it and almost like, and then a break, and embrace. So you know, kind of holding, holding yourself and holding others as a way to show gentleness.

Omar Brownson: 18:56

I love that bringing the attention into that swirl, and then Sophia's sort of acknowledgement of the space. And when I look at it with that lens, I kind of see entropy. This sort of best thing is kind of like swirl, they sort of spread out, and you know, entropy can feel like chaos a little bit, and so then I love that. Then how do we be gentle in the face of chaos? And I think the reality is that people are messy, right, and so how do we? You know, democracy is messy, emotions are messy, and so what does it look like to be gentle in that space?

Omar Brownson: 19:41

And so I guess for me into your inquiry, jim, around you know, how do we be more specific, like, how do we invite a little bit of messiness, like giving people a little safety to acknowledge some of their messiness? And I think this is why, like the story of self, the story of us and the story of now is so often, when we start, at the end of story of now, we're trying to solve problems, right, and I just was talking to a friend today Mark, we still will and he said I don't ever try to solve problems, I just try to change conditions, and I feel like that's part of what we're trying to do is like what are the conditions that we're creating? What is the space that we can hold that allows people to really feel they can be gentle with themselves and each other in this conversation about empathy and democracy?

Jim Herr: 20:37

I don't know if this exactly holds true for a gardenia. I know it holds true for a lot of other elements in nature, but, you know, I see elements of a Fibonacci sequence or Fibonacci spiral, and so I think of what and this is sort of the math side of me instead of the art side is, you know, a Fibonacci sequence. It builds, each number builds upon what came before, and so, you know, I think this idea of like wanting to be at the end and having the whole flower there, for me is something I need to dial back and just know that it is a building process and there's a gentleness to that and that it's okay to not have everything kind of figured out or have the whole picture, but to let the picture, let the full picture evolve and emerge.

Belinda Liu: 21:43

Well, I am. I definitely appreciate how, jim and Sophia, the way that you both are leaning into the unknown around. How are we going to connect the dots between the these, this wisdom of the plants, this idea of empathy and democracy, and not trying to like force, like a definition, just for the sake of having something that sounds clear but we don't yet know if that really is what we mean and just embracing the spiral of the unfolding and creating coherence as we move together? That's what I see, you know, reminds me of the labyrinth on our land. You know, every time I walk it, I I question if I'm going to get to the center, because it just feels like out of control. I know where the center is, I want to just walk there, but every time and every time I have this inner dialogue of if I really going to get to the center. And I know it's going to happen because, you know, I I created the labyrinth, but I still doubt it. And so I just appreciate the way that, even though we all want that so badly that we're acknowledging the discomfort of like, but we don't know yet how it wants to be the space, and so what comes up for me is also like how, then? How do we all show up? And how do I want to show up?

Belinda Liu: 23:05

You know, when we were at the nursery picking the flowers that wanted to be a part of the reflection booth, I remember always going to the gardenia and smelling it, because I just love the, the sweetness of it and the reminder of my grandmother, like the energy of a grandmother, you know, who's just holding you unconditionally with love. And so I guess my question around this is like you know, what would it look like for us to be in this inquiry in a sweet way, versus it feeling hard and challenging? And so I feel like that's maybe a breadcrumb, at least for me. It's like how do we want to work together? And if we can work together around with an energy, of this intentional energy, then can we trust that the ripple effect will be that other people who have a lot of difference can then sit face to face and hear each other and see the humanness in each other. Like maybe how will that translate? And almost like trusting that it will a bit.

Jim Herr: 24:12

And this one's so like opposite. I think, of where our society is today in terms of you know, you need to know what, what the answer is. You need to know what things are going to look like. You know, I'm thinking about just in non-profit and philanthropic work. When you're ready grant, you have to, you're supposed to know what the outcome is going to be. And as a funder, I've been guilty of like, well, what is that outcome going to be? Like, focusing so much on the outcome instead of actually focusing on what the process can build. And then same thing with our government. When you know when people run for office, it's you know, this is my solution to everything. And how can, how can we as a society become comfortable with, with the journey and not necessarily the outcome?

Omar Brownson: 25:10

Yeah, as we, you know, think about pulling a card for the community.

Omar Brownson: 25:17

You know, I shared some of the reflections, some of the photos, with the Zen master, norma Wong, who has been a guest on our podcast before, and she replied you know, it feels especially important as we overthink our way in this time of fraught and fraying democracy.

Omar Brownson: 25:41

And, you know, I think that's the challenge, is that we try to overthink things and we're sort of inviting this spaciousness to feel our way forward. And you know, just the three of us Belinda, arlene and I this was in some ways the first time that all kind of three of us got to kind of co-create in our various ways, right, and and there was a harmony that was created in that process and it took time, you know. And so I think part of it is then you sort of scale that out to communities, to cities, to states, to governments. You know, like, how do we give ourselves time? And this then I go back to like the power of the pause, like how do we manage time? We don't manage time by like running faster, right, we manage time by actually pausing, right, and I think that, to me, is the gift that we can kind of give ourselves in this series is like what's that special pause that just trusts something to emerge that we might not have been able to imagine from the beginning?

Belinda Liu: 27:01

Arlene, what's coming up for you? I've seen you step up to the mic a couple of times.

Arlene Kim Suda: 27:06

Yeah, well, there are so many things that have come up for this drawing, but I feel like three things. I love, sophia, that silence came up for you. I really love that because I had not seen it that way before. But you're right, the panels are very spacious.

Arlene Kim Suda: 27:23

The second thing, jim, it's like this has always been the spiral flower. I think to me, when you're drawing it, you feel it. I felt a spiral when I was actually drawing this flower. I felt it in what I saw, I felt it in what I drew, and hearing you talk about it made me realize that this one is really spiraling outward. So it's almost like there's something in that center that is holding energy and it's ready to just burst outward. So I see it in a different way, I think, just hearing you talk about it.

Arlene Kim Suda: 28:04

And then the last thing I wanted to say about it is in the back of my head, I'm like I remember drawing this plant and this was and maybe there's a clue here because I was doing a 100-day project and this was somewhere in the 70s something days, and I actually got sick and I had to stop. You know the daily practice and this was the first flower that I drew when I came back and I really went into the studio and I didn't think I was going to be able to finish the project, and this was the drawing, and not just the drawing, but the word gentleness. Gentleness is the way that I was able to, you know, get back to the practice and finish, you know, finish this 100-day project. So maybe there's a clue there that a little bit of what Omar was saying. It's like to reach to the end. You know it's counterintuitive. Maybe you don't push harder, maybe you just really embrace this gentleness in your life.

Belinda Liu: 29:07

I'm so curious what the card we're going to get for our listeners for this week is going to be. So I'm going to start from the bottom up. And then, Jim, why don't you pick the card? And so if you did the last one, just let me know when to stop.

Jim Herr: 29:25

Stop, and then that row that we're on right now.

Omar Brownson: 29:30

The third one Part number 37, represented by the chamomile and patience. Some of the most important lessons in life require space and time to grow. What is your relationship with time? How can time be your teacher? As you look at this, this art and just briefly you know, for the community it's three chamomile flowers leaning kind of against each other. Anything come up for folks with this art, the chamomile and the theme of patience.

Sofia Alvarez: 30:12

When I see these flowers in the artwork, I notice that the center bud, like the face of the flower, is pointed upwards. It's upwards and out and I think in that patient they're alive Patients they'll have some optimism in that what it is that you are seeking, or that you hope to arrive to, will come.

Omar Brownson: 30:37

I think that's a great message for our listeners this week of just being able to trust some of the optimism that's out there in the world. So thank you. Anything else, Belinda.

Belinda Liu: 30:56

Oh, I just love this card. Yeah, it definitely feels connected also to gentleness, and you know, these were three cards that we decided later to include after our first release of the card deck. So courage, patience and gentleness were a couple of them, a couple of the ones that we added later, and there is a tie-in right Like to gentleness and patience. Literally, how do we, you know, be kind to ourselves as we're waiting for things to unfold, or the clarity to come, or the? You know, it's like a family or a constellation of pieces, right? It's not one person dictating what's going to happen for themselves. It's like there's other pieces involved and, of course, we have to trust the timing of that with others.

Omar Brownson: 31:49

Well, I look forward to seeing how this empathy and democracy talk and pop-up art installation evolves. The next one is going to be October 21st, so if you're in Los Angeles, we'd love to see you there at the Democracy Center hosted at the Japanese American National Museum. Any final words, Sophia or Jim?

Jim Herr: 32:16

Just grateful that we are on this journey.

Omar Brownson: 32:20

Awesome, Well. Wishing you all well, Sophia.

Sofia Alvarez: 32:25

Excited to see pun intended, what this will continue to bloom into.

Omar Brownson: 32:33

Here's some more blooming Cheers.

Arlene Kim Suda: 32:36

Cheers.