Gratitude Blooming Podcast
Inspired by nature, art and gratitude, the Gratitude Blooming co-hosts Belinda Liu and Omar Brownson bring fresh and diverse perspectives to well-being. For us, heartfulness is the new mindfulness. Gratitude Blooming was inspired by the artist Arlene Kim Suda and her 100 Days of Blooming Love art project. Hear from culture keepers, creators, healers, leaders and so many others who share their emergent practices to build the beautiful world our hearts know is possible. Please rate, review and subscribe. New conversations each week. We want to hear what you're grateful for. Learn more at www.gratitudeblooming.com
Gratitude Blooming Podcast
Unraveling Modernity: Dancing across cultures and change
As we journey through life, we often find ourselves confronting the paradox of ambition and rest. Come with us, be part of our personal reflections on recent travels, and you might just hear the whisper of your own inner compass urging you to make necessary changes. Let's walk together as we share our tales of self-discovery, pondering the effects of modernity, particularly within the fast-paced tech and startup culture.
Have you ever considered the effects of ancestral trauma on your wellbeing? Join as we traverse this path, considering how we can find healing and transformation, even amidst the pressures of the modern world. We'll share our stories of confronting core wounds and navigating the cultural intersections of our lives, inviting you to embark on your own journey of self-discovery.
But, it's not all serious introspection. We'll also be shedding light on the joy of cross-cultural dancing, the power of presence and the beauty of transcending metaphors that no longer serve us. Join us as we celebrate our collective role in co-creating the world we want to live in, embracing the joy and inspiration that comes from meaningful connections and shared stories.
Get your own Gratitude Blooming card deck, candle and much much more at our shop at www.gratitudeblooming.com. Your purchase helps us sustain this podcast, or you can also sponsor us here.
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave us a 5-star rating and review. Your feedback is valuable to us and helps us grow.
Share your thoughts and comments by emailing us at hello@gratitudeblooming.com. We love hearing from our listeners!
Hello Belinda.
Belinda Liu:Hey, elmar.
Omar Brownson:Can't believe. The year is wrapping up and just so much has unfolded in 2023.
Belinda Liu:Where did the year go? I feel like this year moved faster than previous years and definitely it's getting me into a cozy up, bundle up and reflect kind of mode.
Omar Brownson:Do you have snow yet in Chasta?
Belinda Liu:We just got our first snow, december 1st, and it was this beautiful light dust of one inch, which was perfect. The trees looked amazing, we got that winter vibe and then it melted.
Omar Brownson:I'm sure you're happy for that. You've been traveling a lot. Where have you been?
Belinda Liu:Yeah well, it's been an interesting time this fall of journeying and learning from different community projects. I've been feeling this urge to do some visioning of the land and the community that we're building through the lens of communities that have been built over 40 to 50 years. So I got to visit a community in Northern Italy and another one in Finhorn, scotland, and it was really cool to ask questions of the people that have been part of these two projects for years and imagine myself what do I want to see 40 to 50 years from now? And it's interesting. It feels like we've been taking a longer pause to really reflect on these questions, and you too have been traveling, so it's interesting that we're kind of in the same flow of kind of adding new elements to look at and reflect on in our lives.
Omar Brownson:It's a lot to travel Just came back from Peru and participating in sort of an indigenous ceremony, heading off to Mexico. Those are my and Ria Vieira. I'm actually going to be officiating a friend's wedding, which I'm very excited about. He's Sri Lankan, and so one day is sort of more of a Sri Lankan based ceremony and the next one is more of a traditional one. So, yeah, I feel like there's really reimagining ritual and community and what are these like practices that we hold in our lives, and I think our theme for today is really around walking down mountains, and I think so much of our culture, modern life, technology, sort of achievement orientation, is like climbing mountains. And I feel like you and I have both really intentionally explored valleys. Like what does it look like to not reach peaks but really find the fertile land right? Like farmland is found in valleys, that's where the rich soil is, and so, yeah, I'm excited to sort of explore what that looks like today.
Belinda Liu:Yeah, and it's interesting how hard it is sometimes to give ourselves permission to stop and then walk down because there's so much of the world I mean, I feel this tension really present right now so much of the land in nature, and this hemisphere is getting quiet, is getting ready for rest, is shedding, and then there's this internal pressure that I feel to finish all of these to-do lists and look back on goals that were not achieved, and it feels like such an extreme paradox and that's a bit also, I think, of this metaphor of in your life, like, when do you know that it's time to stop and pause and you're not on the right mountain?
Belinda Liu:And I feel, like Omar, you've talked about this a lot in your life of intentionally having to do that and because of your values. Some people do it because they've had a major health crisis, but in your case, you were very aware of, okay, this is not aligned anymore, and so I'd love for you to share with our listeners, who are kind of going through that in big and small ways, of how did you even know, like, hey, this is a moment now to stop and go down.
Omar Brownson:I spent 20 years in finance and real estate and it was really driven by this mantra of building the world I want to live in.
Omar Brownson:And that was born out of, in some ways, the ashes of the 1992 civil unrest here in Los Angeles, where my political awareness was awakened and just realizing that democracy and cities are a lot more fragile than we realize.
Omar Brownson:And so building the world I want to live in was sort of this idea of like I've seen things fall apart and one thing led to another but ended up building both real estate like affordable housing, mixed use development, then on the finance side and investing in projects to then really culminating and bridging sort of my passion around nature and culture and people in place and the LA River was this manifestation of that at 51 miles and then build a company or an organization, a nonprofit, to really lead that sort of effort to then getting to collaborate with Frank Gehry, one of the most famous architects in the world, and getting to really reimagine the future of Los Angeles for the next 20 to 30 years.
Omar Brownson:But in the course of that sort of realizing like, oh, but I'm not the human being I want to be, like I'm very impatient, like everything is like now and urgent, and I had no sort of energy left for my family and my kids, my wife, and so I was like, well, this is the top of the mountain, not sure, this is where I want to be and that's really where. Then I don't know if I found gratitude or gratitude found me.
Belinda Liu:I would love to just emphasize what you said, which is it was a feeling that it wasn't right, quite right, and I can really resonate with that too. There have been moments in my life where, externally, things looked great, but then I didn't feel good or I wasn't my best self, and I feel like that was your compass, was OK. If this is just going to be my life, that's not going to be OK, and how you showed up for yourself and the people in your life.
Omar Brownson:And it was really then, after COVID and really seeing things fall apart even further was like I don't actually want to go chase venture capital and like that energy of achievement. And this is where the new and I started really sort of collaborating and holding spaces in ways that were meeting people where they were suffering right. Where there? Was difficulty, like I remember people calling in from like hospice and like calling because there was nowhere else to go in some ways, and so holding space for that energy.
Belinda Liu:While I was traveling, I was around in a circle with a hundred other people and we were all kind of introducing ourselves. And I remember this one woman, who probably was in her 60s, said you know, my mission in life right now is to die well. And I remember that we always hear about how we wanna live well. We don't ever talk about how we wanna die well. And in many ways, this metaphor of the mountain navigating these cycles of life, it's like it is ultimately about that at the end, like all this practice that we're getting. And I remember, omar, when we were talking about this episode and this theme, you had said that you came across another metaphor of four mountains and for me that really stuck in my mind, because how do we think about these stages of our lives and what we're actually preparing ourselves for, especially at the very end, right?
Omar Brownson:Yeah, so I'm reading right now hospicing modernity, which I highly, highly recommend, and it's really about reimagining modern life and maybe the end of modern life If some people have talked about late stage capitalism and the author, she really invites us to not just sort of jump to like what's the next thing, like I did, like I jumped from one, I was trying to jump from one peak to the next, I was trying to skip the valley, and so she really invites and she shares a story from the Cree tribe and they teach and the elders gave permission to share this story, which is there's four mountains. The first mountain is like the baby mountain. You're just sort of like learning to walk, right, it's that crawling to walking stage of life. And then the next mountain is the warrior mountain, right, and that's when we're filled with like fire and brimstone and we just passion and you just like seize the mountain, right, like it's got that sort of almost marine kind of mindset of like let's take the mountain.
Omar Brownson:But then she invites two other mountains. The next is really the hunter provider, right, like how do we actually get to a space of? It's not just about us and our own personal sort of ego or energy or of idea of things. And then the final is the elder mountain, which in some ways brings us full circle back to the baby mountain and like how are we really holding space of that sort of birth and death and the renewal? And the author really talks about how, in some ways, modern life is really just focused on the warrior mountain. We're stuck in the warrior mountain.
Omar Brownson:We just constantly want to keep taking mountains and that energy of just like move fast, break things right, like that mindset technology, I think in particular sort of shows that like performance metrics, we can just optimize everything right and maybe and this is the irony of sometimes, like when technology is not working, what's the best thing to do is to unplug it and plug it back in and like reboot. But in our sort of optimizing everything mindset right, like I even remember talking to a friend recently who's like deep into spiritual practices in corporate environments but she was concerned because like last thing she wants to do is like optimize spirituality right.
Omar Brownson:And that's, I think, the other sort of element is the transition that we're making is from mastery to depth. Mastery is achievement, it's accomplishing that, that goal, but depth is then found in the valleys. Right. Like, where do we find and we've had guests on our show, I'm thinking of the psychologists who talked about the shadow work and and and where do we really sort of make room for all of these mountains in our lives and to recognize, like, when do you need to walk down a mountain to really then climb the next?
Belinda Liu:Mm, hmm. I think culturally we're looking for a new paradigm that is moving into wisdom and elderships. So many people I know in our community who are in their sixties are like how do I prepare to be an elder, to then eventually be an ancestor? It's not a given just because you lived a long life that you get that, that wisdom title and and so much of it is this practice, and I feel like that's what we also are holding space for with gratitude blooming is how do we create a different kind of culture around even how do we hold space?
Omar Brownson:Well, how about you, belinda? I feel like part of hospicing modernity, and a lot of the practices that I've been exploring have been grounded in nature, and nature not just is something that we observe as out there, but something within us, and in some ways, there's no separation. What have you learned about living at the foothills of a large mountain, being nestled into a canyon? How have these practices helped you walk down mountains, and what mountains have you walked down? Wow?
Belinda Liu:Well, I think, to decide to be self employed since 2009,. It's, I think I. One thing I realized was the current modern, the structure of modernity around how I want to live and make a living, which just wasn't working. And, and since then I've kind of been looking for ways, models to have that way of life that really matches what I want to create in the world and also how, how I want to do it. And I dabbled with startup cultures, creating one, looking at Silicon Valley as a model, and it really was exhausting to constantly be trying to prove yourself and for me.
Belinda Liu:I remember going to these tech conferences and I'd be like one of the few women and, being Asian too, I just constantly felt out of place, like it wasn't really for me. The coming down of the mountain was acknowledging like it's okay to say that it's not for you and to and to walk away from that because you like it wasn't ever. It never felt right. But there was a I think there was an ego part of me that wanted to be a part of that club, because I felt excluded and I wanted to say, hey, look, I'm doing this thing and everyone can't you see how great it is, and I really had to let go of external validation for a long period of time.
Belinda Liu:I just really had to surrender that, whatever I was doing, the things that have depth, like you can't see them right away, and so it takes this cultivation of going more inward and trusting that and, I think, being with the cycles of nature over years now we're now on our ninth year of stewarding the land in Mount Shasta and I remember that being the medicine that every year I'd have to learn, and fall would always be the hardest time, because I was holding onto so many things and wanting to see everything that I had wanted to create come into reality. And then I would see how the trees were just letting go of their leaves and there wasn't that resistance of trying to do more and more and more, just to like get the most out of the year. That internal recalibration that nature supported me with is what gives me the anchor and the conviction internally to keep doing what I'm doing in the way that I feel like is the most honest for me.
Omar Brownson:So I want you to unpack medicines a little bit more, because I feel, like in the sort of modern life we've conflated degrees with medicine, achievements with healing, and we both went to Harvard. We both played the game and then walked away from the game. But what is medicine? What does that even really mean? What's the difference between curing versus healing?
Belinda Liu:Yeah, I think immediately, for me, medicine in the way that I feel it and it's kind of channeling Arlene a bit too, and how she sees her art is, is this energy of healing and this energy of transformation and transmutation. You have to be super engaged with that internally and externally, and oftentimes we are meant to receive the medicine of our lives so that we can then give it into the world. So in many ways it is the healing journey Like what is it that we need to deeply heal within ourselves that then affects how we show up in the world. And for me, I think my core wound if I were to be totally honest, is this sense of not being worthy, not being enough.
Belinda Liu:Maybe there was something as an immigrant showing up immediately in first grade, not belonging, not feeling like I knew what I was doing because I didn't know the language. Or maybe there was something with my relationship with my mother, the way that I saw that she didn't feel fully worthy and I took that on and so then it affected everything that I did till I really wanted to face that, and I think that's the deep spiritual medicine, right. It's like when you're willing to look at all the aspects of your life where that showed up and it wasn't music, music, music, music, music, music, serving. I think that, for me, is what what that means, and I'm curious for you how do you reflect on this now, in this phase of your life?
Omar Brownson:Just want to acknowledge a couple things you shared. First, which is just what I'm hearing, is the healing versus curing is like transformation versus fixing. Yeah, like, how do we not just like, because you can't ever go back to something, and so part of it is like it's a false idea, right, it's a false promise. And so how do you actually transform, which is evolve? And then the evolution that you're talking about is like Over generations right, like some of these traumas or challenges are ancestral and and the healing is not just within your own lifetime, but you know, and it and science backs us up, like the, the epidemiological, like changes like Show up. Right, like if your ancestors, two generations ago, did not have enough food, that will show up in your genes. And like how you approach eating. And so, like the fixing mentality of dieting right, like, oh, I need to lose weight, achieve some Sort of idea of what health looks like, but if you don't understand that maybe two generations ago there was not enough food in your family and so your, your DNA Is wired in a particular way, there's no fixing that right now there's, I don't even know. There's like some new drug that's supposed to help you with your diet and appetite, and it's just like Modern sort of life, once you just take a pill, right and as opposed to like what are those systemic or Life things that are happening around you and support health in a very different way, right like, and I feel like that sort of the transformation. Yeah, the three medicines that I've been sort of playing with really recently is this idea that gratitude, stories and plans Are my three medicines.
Omar Brownson:And, and really this most recent trip to Peru where I did a lot of singing and dancing, I realized I've been holding on to this metaphor of a bridge for a very long time, right, growing up with Chinese American family on my mom's side, white family on my dad's side, but who converted Islam, hence Omar, and so I've always felt like this bridge right, like trying to connect across cultures. And as I was dancing, I realized that like a bridge is too static, a bridge is too binary, right, like it's just connecting two sides and it self doesn't actually get to transform. It's like just getting ridden across in some ways. And so I was like, well, I'm actually a dancer, like I dance across cultures and I move across cultures, and then I think the things that I've been moving with, particularly the last few years, is gratitude, stories and plans and really like how do I listen to gratitude as a place of being able to connect deep into my emotions and feelings and these very sometimes irrational things, right, as opposed to like, oh, this is the logic, linear sort of thinking that is right. Like no, what are these wild emotions and how do I be present to them? And then also realizing I don't have to become all of them right, like I can sort of see the highs and the lows Without experiencing necessarily the highs and lows. Just be like whoa, look, these are the peaks and valleys.
Omar Brownson:And then stories, I think is really what are the stories that we are telling ourselves? What is success? How do we measure success? What are the metaphors? Like if I, am I a bridge or am I a dancer? Like, how am I orienting in my life?
Omar Brownson:I remember two years ago, as every like, oftentimes folks are like what's the, what's the intersecting circles? And you try to find the one thing that, like all things linked to and her career, she felt more like a braid these threads. It wasn't about trying to find that, one sort of thing that connected all the dots. And so I think the stories that we tell, like where this, this Cree tribe, like there's four mountains, like and these are not just metaphors as in stories, but this is actually life, like we actually live our lives through these, not just ideas, but just ways of moving in the world. Then then finally, I think, with plants it's just connecting back to this thing. That's much bigger, like this life. It's much bigger than we can even imagine. So we forget that in our quote sort of civilized lives in our cities and all these other things that try to conform and fix and structure everything.
Belinda Liu:Well, dancing sounds a lot more fun than trying to be a bridge. I mean, we got a bridge on our land, across our creek, and the bridge when I walk it I hear sometimes the energy of it is like, oh god, I got to be strong, I got to hold these two sides together and make sure people can walk across without hurting themselves. So I just love that you are reframing that metaphor in a way that feels fun and dynamic and, yeah, it's bringing all the things together.
Omar Brownson:Even science shows that, like if you just practice something versus play with something, you're going to learn way faster through play. And so, like I feel like how we break out of some of these mechanistic sort of ideas into sort of more of these organic forms like this, is this transition that we're sort of on the front ends of experiencing, and I feel like getting to be both mirrors and windows for right, like we're getting to sort of reflect in real time, like that's what the third season of this podcast is all about. Is like this, our audio documentary of just like hey, this is what we're learning, this is the edges of what we're experiencing from literally now around the world, right like you and I are traveling and listening to all these different communities and getting to sort of share, and then that way we get to be these windows into these other ways of living.
Belinda Liu:Well, with that, I feel like it is now the time to bring in the plants of gratitude blooming, and I'm curious if there's an inquiry we should hold for ourselves and our community, omar, and now we get to add the song to it, so this is going to be fun.
Omar Brownson:Yeah, I'm feeling just this open inquiry is like how do we help teach people how to walk down mountains? A lot less fear and like how do we dance down mountains?
Belinda Liu:I like that.
Omar Brownson:Since we're talking about valleys, we should pick from the bottom.
Belinda Liu:I'm feeling this one here.
Omar Brownson:Number 12, the Indian paintbrush representing joy and presence. When you make time for stillness in the moment, what does joy feel like?
Belinda Liu:Nice exhale.
Omar Brownson:Yeah, nice exhale. It feels like a good exhale, right, like that's why the expression is waiting to exhale. Like how do we just we're so busy sometimes just holding our breath like, oh, just the next thing and then I can relax, so the next thing and then everything will be all right, or the next thing, and it's just like no, it's actually joy and presence, it's, it's right now. Like what are we present to? And like how do we experience the joy? And like this is the only card in the deck with a creature in it and this beautiful hummingbird that's visited Arlene and her family, the hummingbird's family that's visited her. And it's just how do we experience in the moment that infinite possibility, that joy that nature kind of brings, and and dance with it?
Omar Brownson:like like, how do we actually dance with the moment?
Belinda Liu:And I love that word present, presence, present. It feels like a gift, like how do we give ourselves this gift just in how we choose to take that pause, even when it's things feel really crazy and out of control, especially this time of year. And I feel like when I watch the hummingbirds pollinate, they do look like they're dancing in air mid-air. They're just kind of like playing.
Omar Brownson:I love that you brought in the word pollinate, because you look at the bird and the two flowers. It's an ecosystem, right like joy and presence is actually acknowledging the ecosystem that you're part of. Right like a flower cannot pollinate without the birds. The birds want the nectar of the flowers and I feel like that's also this sort of deep reminder is that we're not alone. Right like gratitude is about reminding ourselves that we're part of something bigger and and so how do we pause?
Omar Brownson:When you make time for stillness in the moment, what does joy feel like? And that just sort of like waiting to exhale. And I was actually just reading about a I think it's a tichnot Han meditation practice and he says to start your breath with an exhale, not an inhale. And when you start your breath with an exhale, you start by giving. Right. So instead of beginning like sometimes breathing in and then breathing out, we start with an inhale. We're sort of taking. And so what does it look like to begin by giving a breath? And that's really been.
Omar Brownson:I think I was recently in Bolinas for the common wheel fall gathering and just listening to this Cambodian filmmaker I think I shared this before it was just like breathing with the trees and being in relationship that like I can breathe out and I'm like feeding the trees and I can breathe in and the trees are feeding me and it literally is a gift that keeps on giving, because if we each feel that joy in that authentic way that the hummingbird does, or the, or the paintbrush plant, I mean that affects everyone else around us, right?
Belinda Liu:it's like just this gift that keeps on giving, and so I love now that we have our ritual for season three of just the songs of the gratitude blooming plants. So Omar is going to pull up the song and and let's practice, with an exhale first before we listen to the song, to to really just receive, give back to it and receive it here is joy in presence.
Omar Brownson:Our collaboration with aerial low and window seat.
Belinda Liu:Wow, I feel like I was dancing on air towards the end of that song and I honestly I haven't noticed that shift in that song. When it starts getting fluttery, I'm curious what joy and presence felt like for you, Omar.
Omar Brownson:I was just thinking about how excited I am for you and the community that you're building, that you're in year nine, you said, but what's going to unfold in the next 30 to 40 years? And I know that you're already imagining Hestia across oceans and inviting different myth-makers and storytellers and practitioners, and so, yeah, I'm just excited for all the seeds that you're planting.
Belinda Liu:So you just inspired me to dance a little bit in my heart. So I love that we have this space to inspire each other and hopefully transmit some of that to you all who are listening or watching. And yeah, please continue to listen to the music if it's healing, or pick your own cards to inspire you and guide you for coming down the mountain. And we have our great holiday deals this month 20% off everything in our shop and, honestly, all of the purchases that come through just help us keep this podcast going. So really grateful to see the orders coming through this month and supporting this no ads. Listen to our driven podcast that we're creating together.
Omar Brownson:Awesome. Thank you so much for helping us to co-create the world we want to live in. Cheers churches.
